Strengthening Constitutional Self-Government

No Left Turns

Rove and Plame

Here is the much tauted Newsweek article on the fact that Karl Rove talked with the Time reporter, Matt Cooper. Note that what Rove said is not what any lawyer would take to be illegal. Is this all there is? Powerline has more detail, and, since John is a lawyer, his views on all this are more to be trusted than mine. Also note this, kind-of-amusing thing from Craig Crawford:

If Karl Rove planned this -- which I doubt -- he really is a genius:

1.) He leaks to Time’s Matt Cooper in such a way that he avoids the law’s intent requirement for criminal liability (Newsweek notes that Cooper’s email shows nothing indicating Rove knew or revealed that Valerie Plame was an undercover agent, only that she worked at the CIA).

2.) The ensuing grand jury investigation dramatically weakens the news media and future leakers, as reporters must decide whether to testify or go to jail, and even turns Rove’s foes in the public against the reporters involved because they are seen as protecting him.

In other words, by making himself a protected source who loses that protection, Rove makes it easier for the government to use federal courts to target all leakers. This would give Machiavelli a migraine.

Discussions - 28 Comments

Rove - Superman with Superpowers

Early on in the Plame Game, Joe Wilson wanted Karl Rove arrested.

It has been frequently and loudly reported that Rove had some connection with the legal troubles of Miller and Cooper, the MSM reporters. Liberals naturally assumed that Rove was guilty of - something.

But this never made sense. If the NYT and other MSM had anything solid on Rove, it would have been the main headline in 96-point type.

Moreover, it is universally accepted that Rove is brilliant. The Liberals think that Rove is brilliant/ evil, and the Conservatives think that Rove is brilliant/ good. Whatever, anyone with the IQ of a turnip would not be exposing national secrets, particularly to MSM reporters; ergo, Rove did nothing indictable, and whatever he did advanced the Republican agenda.

Rove is good at what he does, but he is probably not as brilliant as the Liberals think. Liberal paranoia makes Rove appear brilliant, at least compared to Liberal Elites. Rove’s Superpowers lie in his ability to confound Liberal thinking.

At the end of the day Rove revealed a CIA operative strictly for partisan politics - he was pissed about the NYT editorial and decided to take Wilson down. net impact he jeopardized national security so maybe heis the one that doesn’t get ’9-11’ so he should stop the preaching.

Mr. "Take" -- Rove broke no law...even the MSM have admitted this. Moreover, he did this to correct one (or many) of Mr. Wilson’s LIES (i.e., that VP Cheney had sent him to Nigeria). In fact, he was assigned to this fact-finding mission because of his wife’s recommendation. That, together with the fact that she was NOT an overseas covert ops agent at the time but rather a stateside "analyst," pretty much sums up this "crime." My prediction...lots of heat, no light. And no conviction or resignation. This is just another Democrat-inspired red herring to play "gotcha" with the POTUS.

What the "MSM" has actually "admitted" (which makes it sound as if they all sit around together and decide what they’re going to say- wait, don’t tell me, you believe that’s what happens, right Dain?), is that it be very difficult to prove that Rove willfully and knowingly broke the law. Anyway, whether he broke the law or not, Bush DID say that he would fire anyone involved in the leak, and it certainly sounds like Rove was involved.

But I agree with you about one thing, Dain- nothing will come of this. Bush will ask Rove what to do (after all, that’s what he pays him for!) and Rove definitely won’t say "you should keep your promise and fire me."

Hey, Phil, I guess you’re bored. Ran of out small rodents to violate, I guess?

Alright, I guess that rodent remark was a bit beyond the pale - sorry, Phil. I still think your "arguments" are uniformally awful, though.

Buzz off, copycat. This tactic of swiping people’s names is juvenile and threatens the viability of this blog. And Phil doesn’t HAVE any arguments...just accusations. Until he starts 1) addressing my issues, and 2) knocking of the insult-fest, he’ll get no respect from me.

As for you, Dain-doppleganger, I understand that teething can be quite stressful for infants, but you really should find a way to more productively way of taking your mind off the irritation.

Here’s an accusation for you, Dain: I don’t think you read my posts. You just read my name, maybe the first and last line and then starting ranting. How do you say I don’t have any arguments? Read my post concerning Rove. I’m not going to re-type the whole thing, but just look back up a few posts and read it.

I will respond to your drivel as I see fit, so you can stop with YOUR accusations about molesting rodents or whatever other not-clever insults you’re planning on throwing at me.

Wow, I really was spot-on when I referred to you as Dain Bramaged way back when, wasn’t I?

While I suspect that you are simply a disturbed individual with a multiple personality disorder, what’s the difference between the person whom you refer to as "copycat" and the person who you say is the "Dain-doppelganger"?? I’m not sure why you said "As for you, Dain-doppelganger..." Weren’t you still addressing the "copycat"?? Or maybe I’m just coming upon this battle too late...

MES...it’s not my fault that some Leftist is childish enough to post under other peoples’ names. This isn’t the first time it has happened (although, interestingly enough, both times have been threads where Phil was involved...hmmm). As for doppelgangers, they are "evil" replicas or ghosts haunting real people. It is an apt thing to call someone who swipes your name.

Now to address Phil’s issue, as usual he gets it wrong. Here’s what Bush actually said:

There are too many leaks of classified information in Washington. If there’s leaks out of my administration, I want to know who it is, and if the person has violated the law, the person will be taken care of.

Bush’s "promise" to "take care of" this person is contigent on law-breaking. I, along with millions of other people, doubt there was any law-breaking involved (see the WSJ opinion piece cited in a thread above). So, before you and your Leftist pals scream for Rove’s head, let’s see if he’s indicted. Even in "Amerika" people are innocent until proven guilty, right?

Are there any other issues, Phil? How about addressing the fact that Joe Wilson LIED about how he got the assignment, and about how THAT ACT jeopardized his wife’s "cover." How about we discuss the Vanity Fair spread Wilson and Plame did, and how they further compromised the couples’ gravitas. Shall we discuss how Joe worked for Kerry (but was then dropped like a hot potato when his lies became public)?

But Dain, you DIDN’T address my issue! What you originally wrote in comment #7 didn’t make sense. You wrote as though "copycat" and "doppleganger"(sic) were TWO different people - as evidenced by the phrase "As for you, Dain-doppleganger..."

Was only comment #6 a forgery, or #5 as well? Or are you hearing voices in your head?? Does Karl Rove tell you things?

Regarding comment 3 by Dain, I don’t think that Mr. Wilson ever claimed that VP Cheney sent him to Nigeria, as you say. Mr. Wilson investigated the claim that Iraq sought to purchase uranium from Niger. Give a globe a spin at your local library and you’ll see that Niger and Nigeria are two different countries. Here’s hoping you do better distinguishing Austria and Australia!

I was speaking to the same person. Just a reiteration...sorry to confuse you.

Why, Craig, you’ve caught me in a tiny typo. How clever you are. You know, if you keep progressing at this rate you might actually be able to hold a real conversation with adults in the near future!

Rove broke no law? Ok you are right - it’s all good lets forget about the whole thing. Why did George Bush Sr fire Rove way back when? leaking information. we all know Rove didn’t get where he is by being a nice guy - he can be a real scumbag when he needs to be i.e. McCain - Primary.
But why defend the guy - his actions jeopardized national security - Plame was invovled with an oil company that has dealings in the mddile east etc. once her name got out - all of that work-time and energy building that went out the window -- if you don’t think that is important - you don’t get it.
There is something called honor - so if you want to parrot the RNC talking points - go ahead, if you want to blame the MSM go ahead - but you know as well as I do that this is F*&&^ed up

All bigtime political operatives, Left and Right, know how to play hardball. What of it? Rove is just better than all the Lefties. And all this garbage about national security...the woman was a desk jockey. Don’t you read the papers? What was F*(&^ed up was Joe Wilson LYING about Niger and exposing his wife to public scrutiny.

And it’s funny. People like you are normally critical of the CIA and its mistaken estimates of WMD in Iraq. Now, all of a sudden, the CIA is foolproof and must be protected at all costs. Just a little transparent, dude.

Yeah, Dain, since there "doppelgangers" on threads that I posted on, it MUST have been me doing it. You seem to have plenty of enemies, pal. I debate your nonsense directly, not typing under your precious Dain™ moniker.

As for your taunting post on another thread asking why no lefties have responded yet- it appears you’re the only one with absolutely NOTHING else to do but respond to each and every comment on NLT. Yeah, and I’M the one with too much time on his hands.

A tiny typo, Dain? So, you MEANT to type "Niger" but your enthusiastic little fingers just got away from ya and you typed "Nigeria" instead? Just a complete coincidence that you struck the i and a keys to create the name of another African country? Attributing ignorance or your faulty memory of a NewsMax article to a "tiny typo" in this case is pretty sad, Dain.

Phil, your comment is self-liquidating. You had time to tell me you didn’t have time to answer my threads. Now that’s sad.

Craig...Nigeria is a the largest country in West Africa. I refer to it about 100 times more often than Niger...it was a natural mistake. If "catching" me on a typo is the best you got, I suggest you send a letter of protest to the University of Phoenix...that degree they sold you didn’t give you the edumocation you needs to rant with the big dogs.

No Dain, I said that NO ONE has time to answer every single thread. Except for you, apparently. I notice you have a comment on pratically every thread and that you respond almost instantly to any comment directed at you. I’m not really sure what’s so "sad" about noticing that you have a seemingly infinite amount of time on your hands.

Phil...I think you are obsessing. I probably post on 10% of the threads...no more. I’m so sorry I get under your skin. Perhaps you should try a more left-leaning blog, where everyone will see the world as does Phil the Great.

"Craig...Nigeria is a the largest country in West Africa. I refer to it about 100 times more often than Niger...it was a natural mistake. If "catching" me on a typo is the best you got..."

Oh boy, you should have really quit while you were ahead. I applaud you on your belated admission of error (although you just can’t resist calling it a "natural" mistake), but now you’ve compounded how needlessly silly you look with "Nigeria is a (sic) the largest country in West Africa."

That’s not true. Again, I advise taking a look at a globe or atlas at your local library. No need to check any stats to simply SEE AT A GLANCE that there are at least three countries larger than Nigeria - but I’ll give you the stats for fun anyway:

Nigeria - 351,648 sq. mi.


Mauritania - 395,593 sq. mi.


Mali - 471,115 sq. mi.

and lo and behold!

Niger!! - 489,075 sq. mi.

So, while Nigeria may be the most populous country in Africa (not just western Africa), it most certainly is not the largest, not even in its region.
Anyway, Dain, proceed in your efforts to expand the definition of "typo." It’s amusing, at the very least!

Gee Dain, is that your way of telling me to get lost? You prefer preaching to the choir, huh? I suspect you’d start to miss me if I weren’t here to call you on your ridiculous comments. Anyway, remember how you were insisting that Bush only said he would fire a person if he or she had broken the law?

"I don’t know of anybody in my administration who leaked classified information. If somebody did leak classified information, I’d like to know it. And we’ll take the appropriate action." That was Dubya on 10/30/03. Now, unless you want to insist that Rove had NOTHING to do with the leak, it’s going to be hard for you to explain that one away. And please don’t try to use some semantic debate about how "appropriate action" doesn’t necessarily mean that the leaker would be fired. All of this is pointless, I suppose, since I know you’re obligated to defend Rove no matter what. You’ll never be able to concede that he might, just might, have done something wrong.

Craig...I suggest you compare the populations of Nigeria and Niger. Country size CAN refer to geography, but also to population. I was refering to the latter, of course. Gee, learn some demography.

"Appropriate action" is, well, appropriate, yes, Phil? It does say fire...Bush is a plain-spoken man, and if he meant "fire" he would have said that. The quotation I pasted in regarded THIS leak, and it contigent on law-breaking. Rove didn’t "leak" anything...he corrected Joe Wilson’s story.

You Lefties aren’t going to get him, so why don’t you give it up. Most people don’t even care about this tempest in a teapot.

Whoops, another mistake. I meant to say "it DOESN’T say fire." You’ve got to expect a few small errors with all the lefty-slaying I do all day...

Yea, what the copycat said.

Dain, with all due respect, your posts are a bit odd.

Not MY fault. Someone is using my name to make posts. All I can do is correct them as I find them.

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