Strengthening Constitutional Self-Government

No Left Turns

We Need Immigrants

At NRO, Ben Wattenberg reminds us that the best reason to support immigration isn’t cheap labor.

There’s nothing wrong with Mexican immigrants. My favorite stats come from the Defense Department, which has data on most everything except who will win the war. They calculate that Mexican-American GIs have been awarded proportionately more Congressional Medals of Honor than any other sub-group in the American military.

Immigrants are our best publicists. They fly home on cheap flights, they e-mail home, they use their cell phones to say America is O.K., and then some. They send home "remittances" to their families, the best form of foreign aid. Immigrants have an average age of 29. They will pay into Social Security and Medicare for 40 years before getting a nickel back. This, we want to encourage!

Discussions - 46 Comments

One has to wonder what part of the U.S. Ben Wattenburg has been inhabiting. I live in a largely retiree community in S. Florida, and his view of immigrants is not the one I see here.
They commit a large percentage of the crime here, place undue burdens on the public healthcare system, and have a great deal of influence in the dumbing down of the school system.
What good teacher, in the days of ’No Child Left Behind’ wants a class full of children who can barely speak English, but who must be tested along with anyone else? If the school doesn’t show enough measurable progress, penalties follow. The immigrant students change frequently, making it almost impossible for the schools to make progress.
Our county tax-funded hospital’s emergency room is a clinic for illegal health care. If you really have an emergency, drive fifteen more minutes to a private emergency room, never mind what it costs, because they will probably get around to seeing you in time for medical procedures to mean anything.
Our jails have a disproportionate number of illegals. Courts have to have translators and public defenders who are conversant in Spanish in order to conduct trials. If convicted, they are sentenced to jails or prisons, where they eat up state resources. Good luck getting ICE to deport them when their prison terms are over.
Ben looked at the liberal, feel-good side of illegal immigration.
I see it from a different perspective.

Yea, let me see if I understand this. Is Ben talking about the ’immigrants’ that fly the Mexican flag and flaunt our laws, or is he referring to the ones that take visit Afghanistan, take flight lesson in Florida, and then ram jets into famous American buildings? I’m not clear on which group of immigrants he’s talking about.

We have nearly 300 million people...we really don’t need any more immigrants, and we particularly don’t need those who aren’t interested in assimilating and becoming Americans.

I think that there is a difference between legal and illegial immigrants. Legal immigrants that come to America with the goal of becoming American citizens, get jobs and assimilate into society are much different than illegial immigrants. Legal immigration should be encouraged...illegial immigration should not.

Why are 27+percentage of inmates in Ca. prisons illegial immigrants? They were not put there for crossing the bourder,thats a misdemeanor. There are over 10 Million people around the world waiting to come here legally & assimilate into our society.

"I’m not clear on which group of immigrants he’s talking about."

He’s probably talking about the millions of people who do none of the things you are talking about.

All this immigration malarkey is a big neocon plot to bring in a bunch of Catholics and put America under the rule of the Pope. When will you people learn that this country was founded by Anglo-Saxons for Anglo-Saxons?

"We have nearly 300 million people...we really don’t need any more immigrants, and we particularly don’t need those who aren’t interested in assimilating and becoming Americans."

I think Dain’s ancestors came over on a boat named the Titanic. Once secured in one of a very few lifeboats, they busied themselves by kicking away struggling swimmers: "This boat’s full! We don’t need any more! Shoulda taken swimming lessons!"

On the other hand, I am struck by the tendency to parse and analyze the immigrant population, here. "I’m all for immigration, as long as we don’t import any terrorists, or thieves or rapists, or bad drivers.

I thought I would follow this example, and discuss White Women. I like White Women, if you take out the ones who drown their own offspring. (I think that is wrong, and white women shouldn’t be allowed to do that!) I also don’t include White Welfare Moms, who crank out children in order to get rich on the public dole. I also don’t like those White Women who use abortion as a birth control device. They don’t value life, and they have no values. Also, White women who support White Collar Crime by failing to blow the whistle on their husbands. They should be patriotic, and turn their CEO Husbands in! And White Women who have indiscriminate sex with men other than me. Boy, I hate them.

So, aside from those exceptions, I like White Women.

Hey I’ve got an idea! Let’s all show how clever we are by picking on Dain!

But in regards to Gerald Nye, I find the idea of a Catholic plot unlikely. Neo-conservatism is clearly a Jewish political philosophy.

Unless...

The tension between Catholics and Jews is just a cover for the nefarious plans of the Vatican/Israel alliance.

A ha!

Haven’t you heard? We’re not using the J-word anymore. It’s "neocons" now, remember? But I definitely hear you, brother.

It is naive to assume that immigrants necessarily love America, or even like it in any important sense. Some do, and others are basically just using America.

I’d wager that most immigrants in the late 19th century believed that they were "just using America." Large numbers came here from central and eastern Europe (including my great-grandparents) not because they had some passionate attachment to American ideals, but because their chances of making it economically in the Old Country were about nil. Many of them did so figuring that they’d make a few bucks, then go back home and buy some land. I doubt that my great-grandparents knew the difference between the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. But they came here, worked hard, paid their taxes and minded their own damn business. Pardon my French, but what the hell is wrong with that?

Fine. Let’s crack down on illegal immigration. I’m okay with that--but let’s also go back to our immigration standards of the late 19th century. If you’re not carrying a communicable disease, you’re not an anarchist, and you’re not likely to become a public burden, come on in.

That’s fine John, let’s welcome them on in, but let’s start taking Spanish classes, because they will outnumber us before you know it. I’m tired of having to deal with cab drivers, restaurant employees, store clerks, etc. who don’t speak a word of English and who then look at me like I’m the one in the wrong country. But if we heed John’s advice, I WILL be the one in the wrong country.

Clay--people used to be afraid that German would be the primary language at one time in America too. I think that John is right in the sense that legal immigrants want to be here to make a living, to raise families and hold jobs. Holding those jobs legally means that they pay taxes so they are not an economic burden to the system. Those immigrants we want to encourage.

If you study immigration, you will note that the first generation of immigrants tend to hold onto their native traditions, whereas the second and third generations tend to throw off most of those customs in favor of more "American" traditions. But then, one could argue what exactly is American? The Christmas tree is a German custom and southern fried chicken came with the slaves from Africa...we are nation of immigrants. We shouldn’t stop legal immigration, (regardless of what language they speak) just illegial immigration.

Yea, it get’s old when the 2 or 3 liberals pick upteen fake names to drag mine in the dirt. Fine, whatever. Idiots.

I’m talking about illegal immigrants, but I’ll also admit that I think we have too many immigrants period. No other country in the world (except I guess Canada) accepts so many immigrants, and the notion that assimilation will somehow magically settle our ethnic/racial/religious problems is STOOPID. The country barely hangs together as it is (and please, John, no happytalk...I can only stomach so much).

And now, go ahead and take so more shots...but just before you paint a swastika on me I’d like you to put forth a number of successful examples of multicultural nations that 1) last for a good long time, and 2) don’t rely on segregation to reduce social tensions.

For you pinheads out there, that excludes Switzerland.

My respect for No Left Turns has been diminished by this post. Who is John Moser?

"The country barely hangs together as it is."

Indeed. We are on the verge of perpetual civil war. Could you be any more melodramatic?

This is me. Who the hell are you?

Yea, it get’s old when the 2 or 3 liberals pick upteen fake names to drag mine in the dirt. Fine, whatever. Idiots. Comment 15 by Dain

Dain,

I didn’t read one single comment that dragged your name in the dirt. I could tell, from comments on other threads, who the moonbats were even though 2 used fake names, and skipped right past them.

Fung, Not, By:

Have at me. I promise not to read your tripe.

This is me. Who the hell are you? Comment 18 by John Moser

If you have a comments section, make sure people have to register to use it and run it with an iron fist. If you don’t keep on top of your comments section, it can be turned into a cesspool in a hurry and you’ll be blamed for it. John Hawkins http://www.rightwingnews.com/

12:

In response to John Moser --

People who don’t have American values (which go far beyond hard work and non-criminality), and who don’t love America but are just using it, are among other things susceptible to un-American ideology. I don’t want even more socialism than we already have.

Nor do I want people, say, who won’t serve in the armed forces or won’t take America’s side against any and all potential enemies.

I’m not saying that these things are typical of immigrants, but that we should make sure, by our immigration policy, that they are not.

The problem with "conservatives":

Lose the fight on the real battles, then leverage the policies enacted because of the lost battles to support new policies.

Immigrants can pay into Social Security and Medicare? Two wrongs do not a right make.

MR. FRISK said, "Nor do I want people, say, who won’t serve in the armed forces or won’t take America’s side against any and all potential enemies."

Oh man, I bet you are steamed at Cheney, huh? FIVE deferments!!! "Other priorities" !!! His country called on him and he was just too busy.

For you pinheads out there, that excludes Switzerland. Comment 15 by Dain

So we have to exclude any county that does fit the criteria of "reduced social tensions." Then after doing that we are supposed to supply countries that "reduce social tensions without segregation." Seems like a daunting task. Here’s an example. HOW ABOUT THE USA. We showed after the civil rights movement in the 1960’s that we CAN ASSIMILATE just fine and do so in a peaceful manner. One of the things that makes this country GREAT is that we were pioneers in the equality movement. So can I find a multicultural country that has lasted for a good long time with "reduced social tensions?" Well,,,,,, I guess not in your world Professor.

The United States is a pretty good example. In fact, arguably the U.S. was more "multicultural" (in the best sense of the term) a hundred years ago than it is today. At the beginning of the 20th century English was not the primary language spoken in roughly half of the households in Chicago. In any given American city there were scores of ethnic newspapers in a whole range of languages.

The sort of anti-immigrant rhetoric we’re hearing these days is practically identical to the arguments made by the Know-Nothings in the 1840s, and by the KKK in the 1920s. Each time a wave of new immigrants arrived there were alarmists who claimed that American civilization was at risk, that the English language would die out, and that the newcomers were bearers of alien, "anti-American" ideas. Nevertheless, America kept getting stronger and more prosperous. Really, all this doomsaying and fearmongering is growing tiresome.

Says David: "I’m not saying that these things are typical of immigrants, but that we should make sure, by our immigration policy, that they are not. "

I was just thinking the same thing about White Women! This is amazing, how you and I are on the same page, David!

I’m not saying that all White Women are too emotional to fight effectively in a good, American man’s war, but we should just be sure to identify the ones who are. Maybe suggest that they wear a patch, or something.

On the other hand, we might save money by asking the "good" ones to wear a patch. We could call it a "badge!"

Another thing: I am tired of White Women trying to compete for jobs that are traditionally male jobs. Why can’t they keep their place: doing the jobs that no American Male will do? I think they are just "using" the war in Iraq and Afghanistan -- taking advantage of the absence of Good, American Men, so that they can usurp the good, dignified jobs, while the American Men are off fighting terrorists.

I am glad that we see eye to eye on this, David. Immigrants and White Women. You and I must be vigilant.

I don’t know John. If we shared a two-thousand mile border with Germany I’m not sure that you and your realtives would be speaking English today. I’m also not sure if you would know or care much about American political principles.

It is sad to say, but just because Klansmen in the 1920s said something doesn’t necessarily mean that it is false.

The USA? You people are dumber than I thought. Segregation and inequality have been used for the last 40 years to suck ever more money into Federal coffers. We have periodic riots, one of the highest violence rates of any developed nation on earth, and identity politics that sour public discourse.

I do believe I am done here...you people have nothing to say...really...nothing.

Poor Dain- it must be tough being the smartest person in the universe, having no one but morons to debate. So America is a violent country because of its diversity? What do you really want, Dain? Would you be happy if everyone here looked and thought just like you?

Dain, if you walk out that door, don’t even think about coming back! How could you forsake us like that?

I wonder if Dain or Frisk has enjoyed this contribution to the debate.

Don’t leave, Dain! We’re too dumb to carry on without you!

We have periodic riots First of all, a PERIODIC riot hardly constitutes social tension. Funny how no one hears about these numerous massive "race riots" except the voices in Dain’s head.

one of the highest violence rates of any developed nation on earth

Sorry again Dain but according to The Economist’s Factbook World in Figuresthe Netherlands, Belgium, Fiji, Australia, Sweden,, etc. are all ranked ahead of the United States in serious assaults per 100,000 population. As for theft what do Australia, Netherlands, United Kingdom, Norway, Belgium, France, Austria and Germany have in common? Once again, all ranked ahead of the United States.

Now lets hit on Corruption Japan, France Spain, Portugal, Italy and 150 other countries ranked as being MORE CORRUPT..

Face up to the truth Dain. This is the greatest country on Earth because we don’t (as a society) tolerate bigots like you and we work everyday to get along with our fellow man.

Comment 25 - Wow, let me mark the calendar, I think I found a post by John Moser that I completely (??) agree with!

Yeah, I know- it’s weird. I agree with him 100% on this as well. I’ve also discovered that John is a fellow U of I alum.

It’s amazing. Everyone agrees with this idea that immigration restrictionists are a bunch of losers. Yet they have consistently won. The America we live in looks the way it does, for good or ill, in part because we banned all Chinese immigration between 1883-1943; because Palmer arrested and deported thousands of Russian radicals in 1920; because we drastically cut off all immigration between 1924-1964; because the United States deported four million Mexicans between 1950-1955. Yet here is John saying the arguments are old and that immigration restriction is something we should never think about again.

Congratulations "Fung the Moral Giant" et al, you chased Dain off. Can’t say I blame him for going.

Funny how no one hears about these numerous massive "race riots" except the voices in Dain’s head. Comment 33 by Lincoln Hawk

Guess you missed the Watts riots, the ’72 riots and the "Rodney King" riots eh Linc?

Face up to the truth Dain. This is the greatest country on Earth because we don’t (as a society) tolerate bigots like you and we work everyday to get along with our fellow man.Comment 33 by Lincoln Hawk
This comment by Linc came immediately after paragraphs indicating our crime rates and corruption rates are relatively low. The implication of the quote, therefore, is that America’s low crime rate and low corruption are the results of intolerance of bigotry and working everyday to get along.

Actually, Linc, our crime rates are low because a huge chunk of our career criminals are doing life sentences in prison as a result of 3 strikes laws first passed in California in 1994 and other states thereafter.

Unfortunately bigotry still exists, is tolerated, excused and even encouraged. And you know what I’m talkin’ about.



Sorry again Dain but according to The Economist’s Factbook World in Figuresthe Netherlands, Belgium, Fiji, Australia, Sweden,, etc. are all ranked ahead of the United States in serious assaults per 100,000 population


I must say my jaw dropped at this shocking piece of blatancy or ignorance, I wasn’t sure which.


I had always thought that the US does terribly in all of these stats, so I had another look to make sure I wasn’t bonkers.


Sure enough thems the facts.


Most of these countries have higher crime reporting rates than the US, and all have lower murder rates. In most cases the US murder rate is 3 to 4 times higher.


Plus, the US imprisons 7 times as many people per capita as the countries mentioned in the original post.


Total Crime Victims, which does not include murder or drug offences, does actually appear to be lower in the US than the countries mentioned. I’m guessing this is the statistic that the original poster was referencing, and probably one of very few that he could find.


If you are going to quote statistics give it some substance, thought and context, or ah will take you down boy.


Help yourself .....


http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_percap


http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_pri_per_cap


http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_bri_pay_ind


http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_dru_off


http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_dru_off


OH MY GOD. I just realised I’m agreeing with ... DAIN. Progress?

OH MY GOD. I just realised I’m agreeing with ... DAIN. Progress? Comment 38 by Brian Coughlan

Regress, my friend, not progress.

May Day! May Day! (heh heh heh)Save Our Swede! Coughlan’s becoming a neandrathal...like us!

neandrathal...


Oh a misspelling.... of Neanderthal no less ... but no, I can kind … here in the hallowed halls of NLT, people don’t leap on some insubstantial error and mock the poster mercilessly.


Lucky for you:-)

Coughlan, you make tons of mistakes in every one of your rambling posts, so I wouldn’t bring that up if I were you.

Lori, I don’t particularly care if the millions of Mexican immigrants streaming into this country are legal or "illegial," they are taking over and it’s disturbing. So spare me the sun-shiney, "let’s welcome the good people" talk and let’s stop this before it gets out of hand (if it’s not too late already).

Coughlan, you make tons of mistakes in every one of your rambling posts, so I wouldn’t bring that up if I were you.


Just a little fun ... of course I make mistakes, we all do, it’s the nature of the beast.


But Neanderthal ... it’s especially funny ... you know ... Neanderthal!!!

Ms. Hahn: regarding comment 14, wherein you stated that "southern fried chicken came with the slaves from Africa." Historically, this is simply false. I won’t speculate as to why you passed along this bit of misinformation, if indeed there was any reason at all. Some racists enjoy associating fried chicken with black people as though they were genetically encoded to prefer it (along with watermelon) over other foods. Other racists - particularly those who like the taste of fried chicken - prefer the accurate history of the food, as they can then claim that it puts yet another grand accomplishment on the scorecard of white Europeans, although this is a questionable assertion, as slave cooks are generally credited for adding the spices that are generally connected with the "southern fried" flavor. I will trust and hope that neither applies to you. In any event, this is the short version of its real origin - there are several books that confirm this, but here’s information that can be found readily online:

From Wikipedia - emphasis mine:

"Fried chicken is famous for its roots in the rural American South. There is a dual origin. The Scots, and later Scottish immigrants to many southern states had a tradition of deep frying chicken in fat, unlike their English counterparts who baked or boiled chicken. [1] Later, as African slaves were introduced to households as cooks, seasonings and spices were added that are absent in traditional Scottish cuisine, improving the flavor. Since slaves were often only allowed to keep chickens, frying chicken as a special occasion spread through the African-American community. After slavery, poor rural southern blacks continued the tradition since chickens were often the only animals they could afford to raise. Since fried chicken could keep for several days, it travelled well, and also gained favor during segregation when blacks normally could not find places to eat and had to carry their own food."

From The Encyclopedia of American Food and Drink, John F. Mariani [Lebhar-Friedman:New York] 1999 (p. 305-6); again, emphasis mine:

"Chicken parts that are floured or battered and then fried in hot fat. The term southern fried’ first appeared in print in 1925...Southerners were not the first people in the world to fry chickens, of course. Almost every country has its own version, from Vietnam’s Ga Xao to Italy’s pollo fritto and Austria’s Weiner Backhendl, and numerous fricassees fill the cookbooks of Europe. And fried chicken did not become particularly popular in the northern United States until well into the nineteenth century...The Scottish, who enjoyed frying their chickens rather than boiling or baking them as the English did, may have brought the method with them when they settled the South. The efficient and simple cooking process was very well adapted to the plantation life of the southern African-American slaves, who were often allowed to raise their own chickens. The idea of making a sauce to go with fried chicken must have occurred early on, at least in Maryland, where such a match came to be known as "Maryland fried chicken." By 1878 a dish by this name was listed on the menu of the Grand Union hotel in Saratoga, New York..."

Thank you, John.

Personally, as a vegan, neandrathal who can’t spall, I think we should ban the sale of chicken and put up a fence to make sure no such foul are imported. After all, they could be infected with Avian Flew.

Avian Flew.


That was good:-) As a rare conservative with a sense of humor (lack of humor is I think an expected insult which is slung, unsubstantiated in both directions), do you watch Colbert and Stewart at all?


I think you’d like them, especially Colbert.

Leave a Comment

* denotes a required field
 

No TrackBacks
TrackBack URL: http://nlt.ashbrook.org/movabletype/mt-tb.cgi/8405