I had a (from my point of view, a quietly hilarious) conversation with a young woman who thought that sustaining abstinence, after a "slip" into sexual activity, would heal her virginity. I suppose she had no clear idea of either virginity or virtue. She was entirely dismayed when I explained that some steps, once taken, were irrevocable, and yet, that maintaining her abstinence until marriage was still virtuous behavior.

Since even many adults are confused about issues of sexuality and religious mores, it is not surprising that teens are, too.

Then, is it wishful thinking on the part of those teens who deny their pasts? Surely they can not be forgetting experiences, so perhaps it is that "truth is what I say it is" philosophy that is so modern and regrettable.

But I suppose your point is to wonder why they would feel they must tell the truth to such questioners, anyway. Would you feel compelled to answer such questions? What would compel someone to tell such things to strangers? Maybe it is the new American way; given the things people talk about on daytime TV. Or has that craze passed? Now that I think about it, it was when I was in the hospital after the birth of my sixth child, now 13, and sharing a room with a girl who had given birth to her second child, and herself just 17 years old, that I last saw daytime TV. The shows this girl watched seemed full of people with amazingly mutable moralities. They revealed themselves as thoroughly as the tattooed young women you mentioned earlier this week. I think I would rather suffer any tortures of the flesh to such exposure.

Or does "lie about" mean to assume the position?

"She was entirely dismayed when I explained that some steps, once taken, were irrevocable, and yet, that maintaining her abstinence until marriage was still virtuous behavior."

That’s right, Kate, now she’s going to hell no matter what! Too bad you couldn’t have helped this silly trollop BEFORE she went down the dark path...

No. I thought my point was that redemption was still available to her through more correct behavior. It used to be called repentance and is, for the Christian, which she is, biblically, the way to God’s forgiveness. My point was that she was NOT "going to hell no matter what." She seemed to see it that way and was content. That her soul could be healed even if her flesh could not was the thing, and that left her conscience soothed. Phil, if I were in a position to forgive her sins, I would do so. I am not. Are you?

I do think, or maybe just hope, that God is ready to forgive and does forgive such human frailties more readily than people do, especially the Christian community. Can one help but have a certain sympathy?

Kate...Phil is one of our many trolls. Your best bet is to ignore him and others who substitute snide commentary for thoughtful discourse.

"Thoughtful discourse??!" What a joke. Dain, you’re hardly one to be chastising others for "rude commentary."

Kate- NO. She is beyond forgiveness. Let us pray for her soul.

Oh yeah, dain, I’ve been meaning to ask you- what’s with the lower-case "d" lately? A sign of lower self-esteem?

As I told Fung, simple laziness. There is no meaning behind it.

My discourse is always thoughtful (at least, until someone like yourself starts calling me names)...it’s not my fault if you never stop to consider the points I make.

That’s right Phil. Everyone who disagrees with dain is a troll. In fact, YOU are probably me in disguise.

Would you feel compelled to answer such questions? What would compel someone to tell such things to strangers?

I’m sure kids are much different than when I participated in such surveys, but I remember comparing the lies I told in those surveys to those of my friends. Nobody told the truth then. I’m sure they’re much more honest now...or maybe not. Question: were they ordered not to lie? If so, they lied A LOT! If they weren’t ordered not to lie, they probably only lied a lot.

Even though I am a teacher, I try not to get too deep into the mind of an adolescent for the same reason that JRR Tolkien was angry with CS Lewis for writing the Screwtape Letters and plunging too deep into the dark abyss. The report is mystifying. On the other hand, though I may be reading too much into it, the media has been extremely doubtful and and even hostile to the virginity pledges and has taken every opportunity to show they don’t work or that abstinence does not work with teenagers because their passions and licentious desires simply cannot (and should not) be reigned in.

Tony,
I try not to get too deep into the mind of an adolescent reminds me of teaching a senior hs English class when one of the boys discovered Catcher in the Rye and read it for his monthly book report. (Not only did they have books they read as part of the curriculum, my choices for the class, but when I found that they never read anything except required books, I required that they read a book a month and report on it, both in writing and orally. They found they enjoyed that very much, especially the three days we spent lazing around, talking about the books they’d read.) (Quite a little digression! How I do blab.)

Anyway, I had not read Salinger in many years. I decided to reread the book just to remember what was there and what all of the fuss was about, also to be ready for the discussion to come. There had been a little stir amongst the school staff when they found that book on my approved reading list in the first place. Parental approval had been required. But about the book; I hated it! Why? It was so well written that I felt I was inside the mind of that adolescent and hated being there. Yes, a dark abyss. Of course, that was exactly what the boy reading Catcher loved about it. Probably half a dozen girls read the book for the following month. That book discussion was even more fun.

Dain - Phil is one of our many trolls. What does that mean here, trolls?

Then, about boys and lies: Gentlemen, tell me, instruct me; what is the point about lying, or even telling the truth, about such private matters, to the public? Does it provide them, those teens, some satisfaction in making a public boast? If the survey was confidentially done, in a solitary manner, wouldn’t the results be different than if the survey was done while they were all sitting around in a room, egging each other on? comparing the lies I told in those surveys to those of my friends.

If the survey was confidentially done, in a solitary manner, wouldn’t the results be different than if the survey was done while they were all sitting around in a room, egging each other on?

They were done in a solitary manner, but we talked about them later. "How many times did you say you ’did it?’"

"13."

"How many times have you really done it?"

"None, but I’m hoping to some day."

Kate, in cyber-speak, a troll is a person who posts, e-mails or communicates with others in order to disrupt their communications or otherwise do mischief to the discourse. This is often accomplished by pretending to be a sincerely interested person or to be someone other than who they are. On NLT, we have some multiple-personality posters (same person, several different names). It’s a silly game to lend weight to a given point of view...some days, Leftists apparently outnumber Rightist folk by 2-to-1. In actually, it’s a pale Liberal virgin living in his parents’ basement...unemployed of course...and taking potshots at us "fascists." A cheap thrill, particularly if he can beat down someone pretending to be 3 or 4 people.

Kate, in dainspeak everyone who disagrees with dain is a troll. You are Phil in disguise.

Kate...you really must forgive Dan (aka Craig, "not dain", and probably several others). He is a true troll, and all he is capable of is this kind of useless (and humorless) sniping. Nothing of substance can be expected of him, so it’s best just to skip over his posts. That’s what I’m going to do from now on (although he’ll probably just change his pseudonym). The lack of style will be unmistakeable, however.

Trolls are not the pseudonymunculists, necessarily, you say? Then there is a dizzying schizophrenia to the blog. My impression is of a dozen people, of whom half might be writing under any possible name. Self-expression splintered - and are the arguments real or put on for effect.

I only post under one name and have done so ever since the whole Death’s Jester uproar. But Dan is right, dain calls everyone who disagrees with him a troll or a libertarian.

Hey, Phil...sometimes I call them liberals as well. And you know what? In every case, I’m right! As for you being either a troll or simply (seriously) misguided, I can’t say for sure. But it’s one or the other, and that’s a fact, Jack.