Posted by Peter W. Schramm
It sounds as if Zimbabwe is on the verge of total economic collapse, according to this New York Times story. The government is trying to put an end to the only part of the economy that works.
Perfect man-made misery.
6:31 PM / October 8, 2005
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Perfect racial thuggery. This is envy and power-madness, pure and simple, and the politically-correct Western world has allowed it to happen. Mugabe is essentially an incompetent Afro-nazi...he engages in pogroms, but the trains DONT run on time.
Oh, what a treat to get more of Dains expert analysis on Africa. With your line about the West being "politically correct" (yeah, like our performance at Abu Ghraib, right?), it makes me think that youve been "inspired" by that great right-wing intellectual Paul Harvey. Good day, Dain.
Im clearly more of an expert than you, CS. All you seem to do is snipe and critique...not much of a day job, fella.
And, its very amusing to have this perverse fan club whose members track any little mistake I make. Very flattering! Its nice to know I have your attention.
Youre "clearly" nothing more than an under-enlightened and over-opinionated bag of hot gas, Dain. Your method of getting attention here is similar to a clown juggling at the scene of a nasty car accident.
A number of courageous black Zimbabweans, including the late Prof. Masipula Sithole, have anatomized Mugabes thuggery in detail over the years. Fortunately, Mugabe is quite ancient, and it is to be hoped that whoever comes after him may be an improvement--certainly it wont be hard to beat the old crocodiles time. If freed of the political perversions that Mugabe has laid atop it, Zimbabwes important agricultural sector--once known as "the breadbasket of southern Africa"--could once again return to fecundity.
Craig, just so I understand, are you seriously defending Mugabes kleptocracy, or are you just taking a swipe at Dain?
John, hes just taking a swipe at me...hes apparently got nothing to say. I think the "hot gas" hes talking about floats aimlessly between his ears (lots of empty space in there). As for his defense of Mugabe, why not? Im sure some of his best friends are Afro-Nazis.
Golly, I dont remember typing anything in defense of Mugabe.
Golly, then you must have missed the point of the thread. Next time, save the ad hominem and say something that makes a contribution.
Was the point of the thread to defend Mugabe? I didnt think so. It was truly sweet for Moser to defend his Dark Side alter ego (aka Dain) by presenting the false choice that I was either defending Mugabe or just being mean with Dain (waaah!!), but it should be clear that I was specifically critiquing Dains blaming of the Western world and our allegedly "politically correct" ways as a catalyst for Mugabes crimes. Check the 2nd link that I provided, especially. Dains short rant strikes me as little more than a far-right corollary to the worst, and most simple-minded, of the Left who after 9/11 could only blame America for what happened.
First, please dont insult me by saying that Im John Moser...thats simply not true.
This is from the CIA Factbook:
The UK annexed Southern Rhodesia from the South Africa Company in 1923. A 1961 constitution was formulated that favored whites in power. In 1965 the government unilaterally declared its independence, but the UK did not recognize the act and demanded more complete voting rights for the black African majority in the country (then called Rhodesia). UN sanctions and a guerrilla uprising finally led to free elections in 1979 and independence (as Zimbabwe) in 1980. Robert MUGABE, the nations first prime minister, has been the countrys only ruler
Now, Scanlon, perhaps its incumbent on you to actually READ some history before you go accusing others of ignorance. The West is partially responsible for the current polity in Zimbabwe...our zeal to end racism scuttled any slow devolution of power that would have made black governance in that country liberal and truly democratic. The Left is always pointing to American involvement with dictators to prove that we cause our own problems (e.g., Saddam Hussein), but the Left has its own self-created monsters.
Craig...I suggest you pull the foot out of your mouth when you attempt to pontificate.
So, Dain, I dont see how the information youve referred to should cause Scanlon to eat foot. Do a diplomatic refusal to recognize a country founding itself on a clearly unjust policy, or economic sanctions - that partially helped to trigger free elections - somehow qualify as "political correctness"? Are you saying that Westerners voted Mugabe in, or that they rigged the elections? Sure, Mugabe is a creep, but I still dont see how the West, or Western liberals, have created him. Not buying it.
And does it need to be said that if you rely on the CIA for your "history," well, thats falling pretty far short of anything remotely objective.
Frank, when the "international community" puts pressure on a fragile state, and when that fragile state crumbles as a result and is replaced by a monsterous regime, I think the "international community" holds some responsibility. The Right typically takes an incremental approach to suffrage and sovereignty -- its the Left that INSISTS that perfect justice comes RIGHT NOW, DAMMIT! I believe Labour was in power when Britain turned its back on Rhodesia, and I believe Jimmy Carter was instrumental in pressuring them in the late 1970s (surely you remember his policies toward human rights?).
As for this CIA source, their statement is simply accepted history (except to ignorant liberals, apparently). It would be nice if you people would study things before you preach about them.
Yes, Dain, free elections and independence indicate that a state is crumbling. Many people in the USA, a sovereign state with free elections, might describe their own country as crumbling at the moment and, looking at Bushs approval ratings, theres certainly some regret about the man they elected to be in charge. For their sake, lets hope that Bush doesnt opt to follow Mugabes example. And I think for your Bill OReilly-like sign-off in the last comment you meant to say "It would be nice if you people would study things and come to the same conclusions as I have before you preach about them."
Dont put words in my mouth, Scanlon. Thats impolite...and inaccurate.
Your comment is mostly irrelevant (Bush has nothing to do with Rhodesian history). Just another sniping opportunity...or perhaps you have ADD...cant seem to stay on topic. Very sad.
You do say enough, however, to indicate the problem. According to the liberal mindset, any election is better than no election, even if that election means voting ONCE and only ONCE (there havent been any serious elections since in that country). Moreover, all your "liberal" concern for minority groups is just so much hogwash, isnt it. Heres a minority that has been victimized by a premature democractic process, but you couldnt care less. The real story is that the Left uses minority groups as moral leverage to initiate their totalitarian schemes. Once those schemes are launched, Lefties dont give a flying flip about real human welfare at all.
One of the saddest things about the Zimbabwean case--and something that shows Mugabes turpitude, perversity, and monstrous selfishness in a very clear light--is that Mugabe, who has caused his countrys current predicament via sudden and wholesale expropriations of land from white farmers, ignored legitimate concerns about land reform for for the first two decades of his rule.
It was only in the late 90s, after the opposition had surprised him by doing unexpectedly well in a national election, that Mugabe embraced "land reform." Except that what he embraced wasnt responsible reform, but a violent campaign to drive whites off their large, efficiently run farms (which employed numerous black Zimbabweans who have now lost their jobs, it should be added) in order to hand the land over, not even to farm workers or local residents, but to Mugabes own thuggish supporters (euphemized as "war veterans" in the regimes propaganda).
In other words, Mugabe barely even gave land reform a thought for 20 years, and then decided to practice not reform but expropriation when it seemed to him that playing the race card would help him consolidate an eroding political base.
He has deliberately and shockingly trashed his country for the sake of hanging onto power (at the age of almost 80!). Hes not the worst that postindependence Africa has seen, unfortunately, but hes pretty awful.
Ah, Dain Bramaged is frothing at the mouth yet again!
"According to the liberal mindset, any election is better than no election..."
And according to Dain, its better to have NO election?
Thats right, MES, sometimes its better NOT to have an immediate election. For instance, the Spanish election right after the Madrid bombings was unfortunate (that new government has become increasingly unpopular...anti-Americanism takes you only so far). There are many examples of democracy installing evil men (hmm...lets see...Hitler comes to mind).
You Leftists bore me to tears. Never any thoughtful analysis, just sniping and mindless commentary.
OK, let the smartassed comments begin. Example: "Hey, Dains absolutely right about democracys electing evil people. Just look at Bush!" Yuck, yuck.