Wedding Ring -$5,000
Wedding Reception and Honeymoon -$15,000
Raising wonderful children in a loving two parent household -priceless!

$5000!!!!!!????? Boy, does my husband owe me!

You assume, I expect, that offspring of righties will themselves become righties, and that the same will be true of the left. That may well not be the case. Generally, kids of authoritarian parents tend to split between two groups: (1) authoritarians like their parents, and (2) rebels, or anti-authoritarians. The factor that helps to predict what will happen is the perceived legitimacy of the parents’ "discipline," or punitive style.

Kids who perceive their parents as "tough but fair" tend to follow in the parents’ footsteps. Kids who grow up thinking their parents would rather hit than reason, tend to go to great lengths to avoid growing up like mom and dad.

Kids of authoritative parents tend to grow up themselves to be authoritatives, valuing democratic parenting (and governing in general), open communication, structure without rigidity, and avoidance of corporal punishment.

So, there may be more "Red" parents, but that does not immediately translate to more "Red" children!

And since most "authoritarians" are blue collar Democrats, I think we can assume that we’ll outbreed and outsocialize them PDQ.

What REALLY happens is that people go through a ’young-and-stupid’ (i.e., idealistic) phase right around their college years, but as they age they become increasingly more conservative.

Folks, Fung and his liberal buddies are counting on stealing young people from conservative homes, but never fear. Ain’t gonna happen (indeed, it never has...look at he leaders of the youth movement in the 1960s...children of red diaper babies). Face it, Fung. The Sixties are long gone.

Fung has a very valid point. I have always thought this business about outproducing the liberals via offspring to be odd.

Think about this ...

The Greatest Generation spawned the hippies and the radicals.

If that doesn’t prove Fung’s point I don’t know what does.

By the way, you might as well start calling Fung also.

Ooops ... I meant ...

By the way, you might as well start calling me Fung also.

The "greatest generation" spoiled their kids. They over-indulged them because they grew up during the depression and had had enough of fighting during the war. Of course, that’s a glittering generality and "Fung" won’t like it--but I think it holds up as far as generalities go. My parents weren’t hippies or radicals--so I guess some of the "greatest generation" did alright.

As for "Red" (I’m guessing you mean "Red" as in "red state" and not as in "Commie"--those kids are now known as "neo-cons") parents producing children of a similar disposition, I’ll think you’ll find that that is generally true as well. "Red" does not equal "authoritarian." In any event, if I have 5 kids and my leftist friend only has 1--my odds are still better even if a few of my kids don’t turn out to be of a like mind. Over time, the secular left will become even less significant if their birth rates don’t increase or ours don’t decrease. It’s just math.

Actually, TexasDude, if you’d bother to read the article Julie links to, you’d see he addresses that. He is right.

I read both articles when they came out, but this notion still seems odd.

Most of the leaders of the hippie "movement" were "progressives" and sometimes "radicals." They were often well-off, but their politics were far Left of center. This was also true of the professoriat. Think about it...if it really was true that Rightwing parents produce Leftwing kids, then why has the Left been losing all these elections? Why has fundamentalist religion had such a resurgence? I guess you could say that this came from Leftwing parents rearing Rightwing kids, but that’s not what really happened.

But that is not what I got from Fung. What I understood Fung to state is that conservative parents do not necessarily beget conservative children.

Maybe I misread him on that.

Actually, he said that conservative parents would create liberal children because of teen rebellion. But that wasn’t what was going on in the 1960s -- most of those activist students had ’progressive’ parents. It had lots to do with the powerful union movement, FDR’s hegemony through the Depression Era, and the immigration flows of the 1920s and 1930s. The Left can’t depend on any of that today.

In any event, the Left should be thankful for the Right’s baby-making prowess: while Europe is going to be democratically Muslim within the next century (some experts even say 20 years), America will have a robust indigenous population and can continue to squable about the usual stuff free of Sharia law.

What I said was that authoritarian parents generally spawn two kinds of kids: (1) obedient authoritarians like themselves, or (2) rebels. The difference (as I said) lies in how the children view the legitimacy of the parents’ punitive measures. Arbitrary, self-serving punishment begets a cynical, rebellious child. Fair, consistent punishment tends to beget obedient carbon copies of the carbon copy parents, valuing tradition and punishment.

Authoritative parents tend to value teaching their kids what TO do, instead of what NOT to do. They tend to value their kids’ independence and individuality. Their kids tend to grow up authoritative, as well.

"In any event, if I have 5 kids and my leftist friend only has 1--my odds are still better even if a few of my kids don’t turn out to be of a like mind." Well, Julie "your" odds really are not relevant. You are already here, and your mind as already expressed itself. As for your offspring, I truly wish them well, having read your views on spoiling, punishment, and Barbie.

As for the "greatest generation," I grew up in a blue collar neighborhood, populated by WWII veterans and their families. The modal version of "spoiling" that I observed was 8 hours on the assembly line, followed by a prolonged stop at the Legion, followed by the nightly homecoming of a 6-pack-toting dad who was as free with a backhand as he was with demands that his wife serve him more quickly. All down the line of houses, the Chryslers and Fords came screeching to a stop in the driveway, while kids and wives scurried around to escape and avoid being "spoiled."

Lots of loving "begetting" going on, too!

As for the "greatest generation," I grew up in a blue collar neighborhood, populated by WWII veterans and their families. The modal version of "spoiling" that I observed was 8 hours on the assembly line, followed by a prolonged stop at the Legion, followed by the nightly homecoming of a 6-pack-toting dad who was as free with a backhand as he was with demands that his wife serve him more quickly. All down the line of houses, the Chryslers and Fords came screeching to a stop in the driveway, while kids and wives scurried around to escape and avoid being "spoiled."

That’s extremely interesting, inasmuch as my experience was completely different. I grew up in a loving middle-class household, with nothing more than the tiniest amount of corporal punishment, to liberal parents (my dad has since moved further to the left, my mom to the right). In any case, I grew up being taught to think for myself, and I ended up a conservative. What am I to make of that?

I have to agree with John. I too grew up in a loving middle-class family. My dad was devoutly democrat (the key emphasis is on was...he has since changed his registration to Republican). My parents taught me the value of voting and looking at both sides of an issue to make an informed decision. Both my brother and I turned out very conservative.

John- One, it suggests that there is still time to follow your dad to the left! I suspect that many of us are still works in progress. Another, it supports my point that kids who are allowed to think for themselves actually can. You toe the party line much less than many, and you are obviously a complex thinker.

My dad was a Goldwater Republican, who became a Reagan-inspired Democrat.. Voted for Reagan the first time, and fled to the side of Goodness and has stayed there, ever since!

Fung, you voted for REAGAN! My God, it’s too late...you’ll burn in Hell for eternity!

Read it again, Dain.

No. First time I was old enough to vote, I spent my vote on John Anderson (sen?). He was going to impose a 50 cent tax on gasoline, which would have brought it up to 1.50 p/gallon.

I’ve always had my finger on the pulse of America. I have never once had my vote effectively support a winning President. Even when I voted for Clinton, it was in a state that he lost.

Man, Fung, that moral superiority just radiates off you. I’ll bet you’re smarter than the the average Joe Knuckle-dragger as well (i.e., those stupid people who vote for the winners).

Dain, you off your game? Ever hear the term, "self-deprecating humor?"

Oh...I’m just not used to seeing in "on the other side." Mea culpa, compadre.

Look out lefties, there’s a new wave of liberals out there who are so far left, they’re right. Check out the blog by Mary Katharine Ham, The Internet: A Free-Market Paradise or a Socialist Village? here: https://www.hughhewitt.com/

Scroll down to it.

They think of themselves as "communitarians" and they seem to think they originated the idea of small government and private investment in problem solving.

Now don’t any of you go bursting their bubble by telling them they’re conservative, k?

Fung is correct that children are not necessarily carbon copies (figuratively speaking of course) of their parents, but clearly, children tend to have the same likes, dislikes, politics, etc. as their parents.

I believe that demographics has as much to do with Republican success as philosophy does. Anyone can try the test themselves and see. Look at your co-workers, determine their politics, look at their birthrate. I would rate the difference in birthrate close to a factor of 10. You will see blue state areas with birthrates far below red state areas. You will see religious folks (of any stripe) with far higher birthrates than non-religious folks (take that you Darwin bumper-sticker sporters). In 2000, my wife and I split our vote (me-Bush, her-Gore). In 2004 our family produced four Bush votes as my two oldest sons voted for the first time. This process will continue generally if not 100% of the time.

It used to be that Democrats had kids. This is no longer the case.